Ep. 4 | The Truth About Seg Funds (and Why You Should Think Twice)

Are you paying thousands in hidden investment fees—and not even realizing it? In this episode, Tre gets a little... passionate discussing segregated funds (seg funds), an insurance-wrapped investment product that many Canadians are sold under the guise of “safety.” Tre breaks down why these products often come with inflated costs, opaque fee structures, and misleading sales tactics—and why most Canadians are better off avoiding them.

Whether you’re a retiree, business owner, or concerned adult child reviewing a parent’s portfolio, this episode is a must-listen.

You’ll learn:

• What seg funds are and how they differ from mutual funds
• The truth behind the “guarantees” and why they rarely matter
• How these products are marketed using fear, not facts
• The staggering long-term cost difference in real dollar terms
• What to watch for if your advisor only sells insurance products

If you have money invested with an insurance first company like WFG (World Financial Group), Primerica, Quadrus, La Capitale or anything else similar, please get a second opinion! 

Of course, feel free to give my office a call or reach out. But to ensure I'm as unbiased as possible. Go talk to someone with their 'CFP' who works at a bank, credit union, investment firm like Raymond James and Edward Jones, find someone on the FPAC member list... Literally anyone with the right education and licenses.

https://www.fpassociation.ca/members

I just beg you to get a second opinion.

Follow, share, or review the podcast to help more Canadians make smarter money decisions.

Transcript

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Plain English Finance Podcast, the podcast dedicated to helping you make smart financial decisions. I'm your host, Trey Bino, certified financial planner and chartered investment manager. I'm a financial planner with TC Wealth Management and a Biso Wealth. For more details or to send in your questions, check out the show notes on my website, trey byer.ca/podcast. If you wanna learn more about me, start with episodes one and two. Let's get into the fourth episode. I'm joined here with See again.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 0:33

Hi.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 0:34

So this episode is, is actually something that, uh, we've. We've talked about on and off for, for years. Um, but it's a pain point I have in my industry and that's on the way. And I don't like to be a downer in my industry, but there are certain practices in my industry, uh, that I absolutely hate. And I think it's a huge, huge disservice. And I think it's really predatory for clients. And one of those is, I don't like to, I hate on a, on a product itself, because there are good uses for certain products.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 1:23

Like this might be a generalization.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 1:25

Yes. But I would say I am still waiting to see a really good use for this product. And that product is called a SEG fund. Segregated fund and basically it's, we'll, we'll go over kind of what they are. Um, but it's most common seen in certain types of companies, and in essence, they are a very expensive way to invest. But for that expense, you get certain benefits. Unfortunately, those benefits. In my opinion are nowhere near enough for the cost. Okay? So some of those benefits and the way they're sold, I think is very misleading. So for example, uh, there is often a guarantee of some kind of the principle when you invest and what people assume is that this guarantees what they have invested. But that's often not the case. So it's, let's say you put in a million dollars into this type of product and, and the guarantee time periods will range, maybe it'll be 10 years or 15 years or what, whatever it is. But basically you are guaranteed what you put in after that time period has elapsed.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 2:55

So if you invest or if you put into the. A million dollars. Million dollars and the contract says 15 years, you'll definitely get that million dollars even if, uh, I don't know,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 3:08

Even if the markets are down or whatever, right. There's the, is the point. That's the allure of the product. So it's kind of like a guarantee. In reality though, there, there are a few stipulations around that, but they. I have ne I'm yet to meet somebody that has seen them pay out at any, because that timeframe is so big that the reason that the insurance companies can take that risk is because the chance is very, very low of that actually happening. Um. Especially in the type of investments that they, you put inside of them, they're often like very large mutual funds that have, so you have a choice between buying the segregated fund version with some of these guarantees, and then the, the non segregated fund version, um,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 3:57

like, would that be through you? The non sick?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 4:01

anybody that is licensed to sell. Mutual funds would be able to sell the non segregated fund version. Uh, but oftentimes when I see this, it's because the advisors, I say that

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 4:16

Loosely.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 4:17

loosely, um, they can only sell insurance products that only license to sell insurance products. They haven't done the, uh, the exams are required to be licensed to sell, uh, mutual funds. Mutual funds is a, like a step below. What? Like, I'm like, I'm, there's a huge variety of different investment options out there. Uh, mutual funds is kind of like the first step that it should be. It should be. Uh, but insurance companies kind of got into it at their twist on it so they can also do these type of products.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 4:55

that for an insurance company, they can only sell SIG funds.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 4:59

Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 5:00

Okay.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 5:01

If they're looking at investment options. Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 5:03

okay, Hmm.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 5:04

So what ends up, I wouldn't say insurance. Somebody that is insurance licensed can only sell SEC funds. Right. Um, yeah. The other benefit, so there's the guarantee benefit. The other benefit that is I. I could genuinely see like, okay, this could be a benefit, is the way that it's handled in an estate. So for instance, in A-T-F-S-A, like a regular TFSA, you can name a beneficiary. That means that the funds within that TFSA pass outside of your estate, but on a non-registered account. You can't name a beneficiary, which means that those funds will typically flow through the estate. That means that it's subject to probates and things like that. Well, with seg funds, it's actually an insurance contract, so therefore you can name a beneficiary on it and it can pass outside of the estate, which means that it's settled significantly or can be settled significantly quicker than.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 6:10

Having to go with her

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 6:11

Having to go through probate and, and all of that type of thing. So that, that is another benefit that I'll show you the numbers, but again, I, it, there is a benefit there. Definitely a benefit there.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 6:25

Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 6:26

You just, if you are going to say yes, that's the benefit I want, you have to understand the cost of that benefit. And that's the key thing is where, uh, I'm, I'm talking about this because, uh. I've, I've now in the past month or so, seen multiple, um, and it's typically like parents of clients and things like that, uh, that like, uh, showing me these statements, not really understanding what they're paying and

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 7:01

And what they're paying

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 7:01

what they're paying for.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 7:03

I, I already wanna say the benefit of avoiding probate. I feel like people use that as like a, a way to sell products in the financial industry way too much. Like in, in the sense of people just want to avoid probate, but they don't fully understand like what probate is and how much it actually costs. Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 7:24

because there's some places where it's very expensive. In Saskatchewan it's very, it's not at all. Um, it's just. Again, it's, it's overused, which is why I think it's, I think it's disingenuous the way that these products are sold.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 7:38

Yeah. Because if you're like, oh, you can avoid probate, and people are like, oh, I've heard that

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 7:42

It's a pain in the bum. Yeah. Everybody hates probate. Nobody likes probate.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 7:46

But you, do you really understand or have you just heard that like, oh, you want to avoid probate? So anyway, sorry. That's just a side note for the. Benefit, I guess,'cause I'm, I'm hearing not a lot of benefit for what you've told me the cost of these are.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 8:02

Yeah. But that, but that, that is a big one. I can see it. Um, and where this is most, I wanna be very clear, like where this is most often seen is in when insurance companies try to do wealth management because they're an insurance company. And then they're like, oh wait, we can also do this this way. And some of the biggest offenders that I've seen is, I'm gonna name and shame screw it, uh, is there's, uh, a company called World Financial Group. Um, they're really notorious. And if you are, if you're thinking to yourself, if you're not with like a major bank or something, I can't remember if I'm saying this, but I would rather people be with, invest with banks than, than these type of companies. Um, but I. Like, for example, world Financial Group, uh, you don't have your laptop there, but let me just, WFG, let me Google them. First thing that comes up. So, world Financial Group, first thing that comes up is life insurance. Red flag, huge red flag. If you're looking up your, the company that you're dealing with. And the first thing that comes up is anything to do with insurance. It should be a red flag and it doesn't mean that. Necessarily your portfolio is terrible. It means that you need to be more aware and more on guard than you may need to be. If he was dealing with another company that wasn't an insurance company first.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 9:35

Question. Side note. So a certified financial planner, they have the is that right?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 9:43

No, they not in, they, they have a, a higher standard of. Standard is the highest standard, but that's because I joined Fpac and that was a major reason why I joined them was because I wanted to be held to that standard.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 9:59

Right.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 10:00

Yeah,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 10:01

Sorry.'cause I was just thinking that might be part of the insurance.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 10:05

no, a lot of it, A lot of it is to do with I think education. There's genuine, genuine advisors I've spoken to that think they're doing the right thing. And, but all when, all you have is a, I say when you, all you have is a, a hammer, everything's a nail. It's just like this is the solution. This is what I'm told to sell. This is what I'm selling for everything. But that's the difference between a financial planner, like a true planner and just a sales person. Right? But going onto the World Financial Group's website, uh, first thing, it starts, it says that is World Financial Group is prime to help you prepare for the long term with insurance, education, planning, and retirement strategies. Insurance is first. And then you look at, uh, so Quadris Quadris is owned by like Canada Life. They used to be Canada Life and Great West Life. They kind of merged. It used to be Freedom 55. Again, freedom 55 was about an insurance product that you could do. But anyway, um. And, uh, Quadris is another, another example where, uh, they are owned slightly better though.'cause when you go onto their website, they are investment. Like they're, they are an investment firm, but because they are owned by an insurance company, I, I would be more cautious than. Than, than otherwise. Um, I've seen great portfolios from Quadras, I've from people that work there. I've also seen terrible ones that are in these type of products, very expensive, where their client didn't really understand, uh, the actual true cost of this. And then you compare it to, um, I, I don't wanna be super biased here, so let's use like Edward Jones. Edward Jones is like a, probably the, a big one that people know of. Um. But you go to their website and the first things you see are, uh, retirement planning and things about investments and how to choose a financial advisor. And it's not trying to sell you insurance or a product even. Right. It, it's, they, they still, they still do insurance. They still do. They still do lots of things, but they are a wealth management firm first. Right. And that's my, that's my caution. Um, to, and there there's others like Fairfax Financial, uh, LA Capital, these are all, and it, like, I couldn't, like capital, I couldn't even find a webpage for them. But when you. Google their name. The first thing that comes up is just a bunch of insurance. Like if you go like Capital Saskatoon, um, which is where I'm located. It's just insurance broker, insurance broker, insurance broker, um, auto insurance agency, like it's insurance. These, these people are insurance first and investments and things like that. Second. So I would just, just be more careful around this. So I was, I'm gonna use an example to show you the, like, the cost difference. This is one that I was looking at this morning as actually since us doing this podcast,'cause I'm annoyed about it right now. Um,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 13:24

was.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 13:25

so this was comparing two. So this was a, this was with, um, IA financials. So that's, I. That was WFG. Yeah, this is World Financial Group. So they work with a few different investment, uh, few investment, not investment, few different insurance companies is like their main source of, um, options, I guess. And I was looking at a Fidelity fund. Fidelity is a fund manager, like a big asset manager, one of the world's biggest asset managers in fact. And they had a, a segregated fund like this client. Um. Had a segregated fund version of this fund, of this Fidelity fund. Okay. So, um, yeah, so this Fidelity fund, and it was the series that they were in was costing them 3.38%. So 3.38% every single year is what this segregated fund was costing them. Which is, which is high for sure. That's crazy. Um, but the regular fund was cost is costs 2.23%. So that's what, what type of difference is that? That's over a percent. So over 1% more is what they're paying for this segregated fund section.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 14:55

So they could have the same

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 14:59

Yeah, so the same managers, same investments within the fund, but the fund version of it doesn't have all these added bells and whistles.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 15:07

Which is simply you can have a beneficiary and avoid probate basically.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 15:11

Yeah. There's other ones like you can potentially, I. Like, it can be a, a credit or protection and like, there's, there's like a, a ma a ma mature, like a often there can be like a death guarantee. Like, you know, if you put a million dollars in today and markets drop and tomorrow you die. Or they'll often, like, depending on the way that it's structured, some of them you'll get that full million dollars back, things like that, right? Like there's like an insurance component tied into it so that I'm not saying that there are no upsides to it.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 15:44

Right.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 15:45

Just that you have to be aware of the cost of these upsides and especially when the upsides are unlikely to happen. You know, if you're in your fifties, you, you have like the average Canadian makes it to the eighties, so you're talking like a pretty long timeframe of paying these significantly higher fees. And the question is, maybe it is worth it to you, maybe it's not. You should be aware. Regardless, you should be aware that this is a thing and what this truly costs.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 16:18

Yeah, because it seemed like earlier today when you were telling me about this, when you wanted to do this podcast episode, were saying he was looking through a statement and the way things are worded and the way things are, um, shown to the client is not transparent or easy to understand. It is factual, but it's very. Complex and on purpose, I would say, because why not just say simple, simple facts?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 16:54

Yeah, it didn't even really show that I had to dig, I had to dig to find the fees of these things like, it, it's just

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 17:01

So it's like, do people actually know what they're paying for and do they actually know what they're paying?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 17:06

most people don't, most, most people don't. I, I would, I would say the PE because if they did, it's very likely they would make different decisions if they did, if they knew. Right. So I, yeah, I wanted to show the difference. Um, so let me bring it up. Bring it up here. This fund, I thought I had it, but I think I closed it because I wanted to compare the two. Okay, so over the past, this is comparing the two, so the one that has the 3.38% fee, which is the I, the ia, north Star Fidelity Fund, and then the, just the regular Fidelity North Star Fund. Um. So the last 10 years, the regular Fidelity Fund has done 6.82%, and because of the extra fees, the other one has done 5.67%. And we might think, okay, that's just, that doesn't sound that crazy. So I'm gonna put it into dollar figures for you. So let's say you started off 10 years ago with$500,000. In the, in the North Star, the regular fund, you would now be at$929,421, and in the other version you'd be at the Seg Fund version, you'd be at$835,183. So that's almost a, that a 90. Something thousand dollar difference.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 18:41

Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 18:43

And the question is, is, is that difference worth it? Because that, because that continues to compound, right? So. I only have up to 2011, I think on, yeah, 2011 on the seg fund version. But if we go back to inception, so that 2011 started, and let's say you put that$500,000 in. Now the difference is now$1.716 million, the regular version versus$1.481 million

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 19:12

The segment

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 19:13

for the second fund version.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 19:14

So what's the difference there? What are.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 19:18

Grab my calculator here.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 19:19

Sorry.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 19:20

It's a$235,000 difference.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 19:23

So essentially you're paying a fee over time of that much money,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 19:31

Basically, that's the cost of their extra benefits. So when, when, yes, it might be, oh, there's all these benefits and this is great, that like. This is the ex, this is the expected cost, is that, that, that, and that compounds more and more and more over time. So the question is. Really if, if, if, if the selling point is that it can go through probate quicker and it, it doesn't have to, sorry, it doesn't have to go through probate and you can get into there, get your money into your beneficiary's hands quicker, et cetera, which is the most common one. That's the, the insurance piece of the guarantees is significantly less likely to happen. Uh, like again, I have not seen it. I would love to know the statistics. I've never seen the statistics and I've had insurance companies really tried to pitch me that to sell these products, so I. If the statistics were good, I feel like they'd lead with the statistics, you know, of the amount of payouts. So I'm sure they have them, but I don't really see'em anywhere. If, if, if you are, if you're a wholesaler or something like that, listening to this, send them to me. I would love to see the statistics or how often those guarantees payout because I would love to.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 20:50

sorry. I just have a. So when you're talking about the guarantees, are you, is that for the time period? So the time period has come up the markets are down

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 21:01

Yeah. Therefore,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 21:03

much so because the period of time is so long,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 21:06

yeah,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 21:07

so it's like, is it really gonna be down the principle for that long? The markets, I mean your,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 21:13

I mean, you're talking about a major, major, major.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 21:17

you just happened to be in what, like 2008?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 21:20

no, not even then because the, it is 15 years, right? Or like, like that type of timeframe. And the ones that are shorter, like let's say it's like 10 years, normally they like guarantee up to 75% or something like that. Like the, it's structured in a way that regardless, it's unlikely to happen.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 21:39

kind of does feel a little

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 21:41

Sleazy. Yes.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 21:42

Like I wanna say can understand. This from a marketing point of view in the sense of the way they're structuring things is to capitalize on fear

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 21:58

Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 21:59

for people. So like you said, there are sometimes uses for this fund, but a lot of what I'm hearing from that lens is just because marketing is my background, that's what I'm thinking about is they're using these tactics to kind of. monger people into buying these products, thinking and knowing that they don't understand fully, if that makes sense. Like they don't, they don't understand the markets enough or the fact that if they're invested for that long, it's so unlikely that they're going to be down principle. They've originally invested by the end of that timeframe, and the, they know, the people don't understand that, so they're using that as an like a lure to get. to buy this product.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 22:46

That's the way it feels to me as well. It, it does, it, it feels, it feels like no reasonable person. With full financial literacy to the same level that somebody like I have would pick this type of product to invest that.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 23:07

Serious

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 23:07

Serious, serious reason. Like because of the cost. Because of the, like, it's not like, oh, there could be a cost. Like, you know, there's gonna be a cost. The higher fees, especially at this type of level, like it's, it makes your downs bigger, it reduces your ups. Like it's because of the fee.'cause they're taking it every single year. Like I, I know fees are not everything. I get that. I. But you have to get, be getting the value for the fees that you're paying. And the vast majority of people don't actually see, don't experience any value in there because, and, and I would say if they guaranteed it, like if it was like every year it was guaranteed for the beginning of that year, like that was the, that was the way the guarantees worked. I would be like, okay, maybe the fee is worth it. At that point, you know, like that peace of mind to know that January 1st, if I ever need that money, I get to, I get it. I could see the, I could see the allure of that, but because that's not the way that it works, I feel like that's what, that's the way people think it works. I.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 24:14

Yes. See, and that's what I'm an issue with is that it sounds like they're really complicating something and not being clear and confusing people. Almost like there's no transparency on what, that's what it seems like, just because you were telling me little bits and pizza pizzas. Pieces from the statements, where there it was very confusing even though you did the math'cause you're looking at it and you're like, it's true. But the way they said it is very complex. So somebody, me looking at the statement, well, you know, I'm, I'm like, what is this? What does this mean? I always come to you like, what does this actually mean? What does this percent here? And that, I could see people just ignoring it.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 25:06

Or they'll, my favorite one that they do is they, they, they'll have like, and it's not just insurance account, but this one gets me, is where they'll have like a column for fees and there'll be zero. And then there'll be a little asterisk that says, doesn't include investment costs, doesn't include management fees, or doesn't include product fees, or something like that where it's like, so a client looking at this statement is gonna see a column that says Fees at zero. Cool. That's where you're gonna, that's where most people are gonna stop. And it's like, and then, and then the product has a feel 3%, almost three, like. I, to me it's, yeah, to me, I, it makes me sick. It makes me, I, I, there's a few things in the industry that, that just, and that, that, that, that's one that makes me mad. It makes me really mad because it, it feels very predatory. It really does. And if only people knew, and you know what, like the industry as a whole has. Going is going in the right direction. We have, we have gotten better and better at disclosing costs and fees, and it's driving fees down, which is good ultimately for clients like we are going in the right direction. But because these are insurance products, the rules are slightly different. That makes me mad as well. I wish that, I wish you absolutely, unless you had your basic mutual fund license. In my opinion, you shouldn't.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 26:48

well, this is kind of scary almost because it sounds like an industry that you think there's going to be a standard in. Again, the average person doesn't understand all of these industry standards, and I would imagine a lot of

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 27:00

between the insurance regulators versus investment regulators versus used to be like the MFDA, the mutual fund dealer association versus iroc and then they merge. No, no. People don't understand that. No.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 27:13

even for you when you're like, hi, I am A CFP, I have my sim. Like all those things that you say, I feel like I can not guarantee, but it's likely that most people are like, I have no idea what that means. Or like I. maybe they know what it stands for or whatever. Like what does that really mean? Right. I Do people even know what a fiduciary oath is? I don't like, sure a lot of people would, but do they know that not all advisors take one? Do they know

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 27:41

Most don't. Right? And, but they don't know what it means. It like there, there's so, and, and you know what? I think that the industry has also done a really bad job of differentiating, um, and like being like,'cause to show'cause to, to most people, all people that do anything to do with the financial products are the same, right? They don't, they couldn't really tell the difference like that between somebody that works at a bank and their job is just to sell. Banks own mutual funds compared to, uh, an independent financial planner that does the only planning compared to somebody like me, which was on the, like the security side that could do stocks or ETFs or what, like have more options to, to compared to an insurance agent that all they can do is seg funds and sell you whole life insurance. Like there's people, people struggle to understand the difference, but it's. Yeah,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 28:42

I'm married to you.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 28:43

but it's, it is unfortunate that the, where you choose to make, how you choose who you choose to trust with these decisions has a huge, huge impact. And you know what, it's not even, I don't even really blame the individual because like the individual advisors, I, I do and I don't. I think if you are in this type of role and you are, your job is to help somebody achieve financial goals, I think it is on you to make sure you're educated.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 29:10

Yeah, that's

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 29:11

I do think that, I remember talking to a, like somebody that worked for, yeah, why not Investors Group for their entire life.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 29:20

You're just throwing

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 29:21

I don't even know, I don't even know if this episodes is a good about to get out. Um, but they were working for Investors group their entire life and, uh, they were told they believed, they truly believed that investors group had better products than everybody else. That's truly what they believed. And it was like, I dunno why their investors group explicitly told them that. They probably didn't, I think they would've tow a line or something. But like they, they weren't, they were very restricted on the type of products they could use, et cetera, until they went independent and they're like, man, now I can have access to all of these different investment providers and funds. I didn't even know what I didn't know beforehand. And that's somebody that's been in the industry for 20, 30 years. So. But I remember talking to that person, I was like, it's on you. Like in my opinion, it is on you to make sure that you get as educated as possible because ultimately that them clients trust you, right? Like this is, but then I go back and forth, right? Because I also know not everybody's like me in that they. Some people are, it's just a job, right? So it's, and if they got rid of everybody that, um, wasn't like me, then there'd been very few planners left. Right. You know, like, which wouldn't be enough to go around, et cetera. Like, I get that. It's just because I am so passionate about it. It, I really, I really hate to see people, in my opinion, what it feels like. Abused, um, because of lack of financial literacy. I. Where a rational person wouldn't make these type of decisions and they're kind of being sold this half truth, that is not a lie, but isn't the whole picture because there, I can assure you that maybe I'm wrong, and there's some in insurance advisors that do truly show them the cost of this. I can't imagine somebody saying an insurance advisor that can only do insurance saying, Hey, there's this one option. It's a really bad option. You should probably go across the road to, uh, Raymond James. You should probably go speak to the credit union wealth team because I can't sell you what I think would be the right. I just can't imagine them doing that, right. Like most right.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 31:43

kind of comes back to that question of does the person even know and that like. It is like when I say the person, the advisor, the insurance advisor, do they even know that? It's like, oh, we have this great product because that's all I know. That's where their education stops. So do they understand? Again, I agree that it's your responsibility if you are calling yourself an expert in something.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 32:09

To be an expert. Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 32:11

should be an expert. And, uh, you said get educated. It doesn't stop though. You, I watch you constantly checking, like reading the news, watching videos, getting other like data, looking at what is accurate and true and that, I know that's like an important part of who you are fundamentally, but it does translate into work and your standard of work. I yeah, take that as you will.'cause people are gonna be like, well, of course you'd say that you're, you're his wife on the podcast. Like,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 32:45

of course.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 32:45

not trying to sell you guys. I'm just saying that is how he is.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 32:50

Yeah. I, and, and it does, it does color my. It does make me, I, I am very self-aware in that I do think I am maybe unfairly harsh on other people that call themselves advisors because of that. But at the same time, I think the world would be a better place if more advisors were like me in that regard. Where you, it didn't, it doesn't matter what head office is trying to tell you. You go out and you speak to people. And you learn and you look at the data and like make decisions based on that versus what the wholesaler's telling you or what your boss that you wonder. Like coming from a company that is trying to sell, get you to sell. You know, like if you're working with RBC for instance, and you look at your portfolio and you see all the RBC funds, do you really think. That is the best option for you

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 33:54

In every single

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 33:55

single.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 33:56

different circumstances and life,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 33:58

It's very unlikely. Right. And what you find is the, the, the reason I, and I'm not a huge bank fan, you know that, but I would rather people work at these banks, um, and invest at these banks and stuff, because at least what you, what you find is the higher up, like, let's say like obvious C Dominion securities. Um, that's the investment brokerage. That's like the, what I do, right? It's like their equivalent is like their Dominion Securities. And what you find is the more experienced and the better the advisors are, the less they use like RBCs own product. And that's not because RBCs own product is terrible, it's because the, even the hint of. Like choosing RBCs product just because it's RBC and that's where you bank or where you work, that hint of bias isn't worth it. And that's what you find when you, when you go up and you, you look at, uh, like I. Like very high quality advisors that, because there's very good advisors and planners that work everywhere, right? Like it's about the planner necessarily. Not even the individual, even these insurance places that I'm talking about, there will be good people there

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 35:16

Yep.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 35:18

if you work at that place. If your portfolio, if your investment portfolio is with these type of companies, you absolutely though should be more careful. Right? And it's just. It's just, it's, it's a pattern that it's not just me. It's like there's lots of, lots of very good planners and advisors that cool this practice out because it is, uh, it is predatory. Like it's, I I don't know how else to say it is. I, and it'd be different, like fees are one thing. Just because they're expensive doesn't mean that it's a bad product at all. Although I could get into that, but let's assume that's the case. At least the, the client needs to be informed and not only informed once when they're going through a hard time or when we, everybody knows, like any advisor, this, you know, that your clients forget half of what you tell them as soon as they walk out of the door. Right? Like, this is, this is a big enough deal that it should be something that is constantly talked about and revisited. It should never. That them, that other client, like your client as an advisor, should never walk into my office and say, I'm giving them a second opinion. And we say to them, Hey, you have SEC funds. This is costing you on average, 2.9, 2.3, 2.7, whatever high, 2%. Why did you make this choice? And they look at me and they say, I didn't know that was the cost. Or my advisor said something about. Uh, guarantees. It's like, no. If you are paying that type of price, that client should know exactly why and they should be fully in, and you shouldn't be afraid of them getting a second opinion because heck, if they're picking that choice, it's because you've told them, this is objectively, this is the cost, this is what the cost is gonna be, and you are choosing these benefits. And it's just that that transparency is. I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it yet. Everybody that I have given second opinions to on these type of products don't know, and it's really sad and I hate it. Seems sick. Gross. Ugh.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 37:39

it truly does bother him a lot. Like he will probably not sleep well tonight. And I know people won't, maybe a lot of people won't believe me, but I am telling you I I'm not sleeping well if he's not sleeping well. So

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 37:53

We have a rise. That's half of it, but it's just so, it's like this, this per like this difference, like this, like this difference over this lifetime for this one fund, like you're TA talking about a 200, almost a quarter of a million dollars. Do you know what this person could do with almost a quarter of a million dollars? Like that? That's enough. If they have grandchildren, they could give, they could give that to them as a pre. A pre inheritance and still be in the same place they would've been if they had, uh, picked the cheaper option. Like that is, that is such a big gap. That's so much money. For what?

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 38:31

Yeah. What are you paying for?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 38:32

For what?

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 38:33

I was just gonna say a quick side note, when you were talking about how a lot of advisors call this practice out. I think the sad thing for a client, I. I'm thinking about it from their point of view is like there's so much information out there, and like you said, it's like where do you start if this isn't your expertise, like you've already got, who isn't busy now, right? Like if you've already got so much on your plate, you're trying, and now you're looking for someone to trust, it sucks that you may have picked the wrong person. And it's, it sucks that you're probably not likely to come across content like on LinkedIn or other social media or like

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 39:21

You better understand, let alone Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 39:24

if an advisor is like, this is why SEG funds are bad, are you really gonna stop and read it? Maybe if you're invested in that product. But most people are just gonna keep scrolling. Like, you're not, you're not interested in this. It's like the information is out there, but

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 39:38

Because even,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 39:39

accessible

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 39:40

and would you even know what to search for? Because like even if you, if you Google, like I was Googling, like seg funds versus mutual funds and um, there's like. There's so many articles on it, like all across Reddit, it talks about it. There's like, money Sense has articles on it where people like, uh, like, uh, like send their questions in and this person was talking about how I think it was their parent or something was in these SEG funds and if it was worth it, et cetera. And I was like, well, for the cost, you, you know, there's lots of considerations you have to think about, right? So the information is there, it's just. I think a lot of people just don't know. They don't know the importance of it and the actual like dollar figures that they're, that they're dealing with, I think.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 40:31

Yeah, and sometimes you don't know what you don't know, and it sucks that you go to these places and you wanna trust that the person is the expert and they're telling you what's in your best interest. But that is not always the case. And unfortunately, we live in a world where you have to keep your guard up and pretty much everything now

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 40:49

Mm-hmm.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 40:50

there's so many things out there. I just feel bad for in that point of view. Having to, trying, you wanna learn you, you want to learn as much as you can, but you don't know what you don't know, and you have to trust somebody at some point. So,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 41:12

You know what? Maybe you're right there. Maybe this is, maybe I should look at it like that. Like if the choice was between doing nothing, I. Like this person with this Fidelity fund, if the choice was between not investing this$500,000 or investing it in this fund, that's really expensive. I guess it's better that they invested it,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 41:34

Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 41:34

you know, like this, this what it turns to$1.48 million is a lot more than 500,000. Or if they had put it into gs.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 41:44

Yeah,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 41:45

You know, like it'd be even less like, I guess that's a good way to think about it.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 41:51

that wasn't totally where I was going, but that's an interesting take. I was just thinking it's, it's like you have to trust somebody at some point. And I guess for me, the bigger, like, I wanna say philosophical question is I. do you trust someone? How do you where? How do you get to a point where you trust that this is in your best interest? I think knowledge is part of it, but at some point, are you really gonna learn absolutely everything? Are you gonna bite the bullet and trust the person who says they're advisor advising you? Think about that. Like you are an advisor to these people. If that's what you're calling yourself, they be able to trust that you have their best interests at

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 42:31

Maybe this is like a, like a comment to other advisors or other people that called themselves other advisors where it's like. If you as an insurance agent, If you don't take the time to educate yourself, you may even think you're doing the right thing for these people. It doesn't matter if you think you are or not. It matters if you objectively are or not,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 42:55

Mm-hmm.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 42:56

is what really matters.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 42:58

Unfortunately, the math is, math

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 43:00

Math is math. Yeah.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 43:02

Yeah. There's

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 43:03

Like,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 43:03

right answer.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 43:04

yeah,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 43:05

Do you want more money or not?

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 43:07

it's like, oh, you just, just be informed. I mean like looking like there's this, um, like I'm looking at an article right now, it's like an honest comparison. Seg funds versus mutual funds, and it talks about like the cost and that's. But doesn't it? If it says like the fees associated with segra fund, SEG funds are usually higher than for mutual funds. This is to cover the cost of the insurance features. And it's like, okay. And then it says, mutual fund advantages lower costs than seg funds. The management expense fees are normally about one to 3% of your holdings, which is less than segregated funds. Over the long term, reduced management fees can make a huge difference to the growth of your portfolio. But what does huge mean? Right? Even if you are reading that, do you really understand how big of a difference that that makes? Like I showed you, I was talking about over like a 10, 15 year period, you know what that looks like for a 30 year period. it's so big. It, it, and yeah, I just, it is what it is. I, I can't, I can't, I can't save everybody, but it's just, it is a, it is a practice that I just. To see and I just, yeah. If I could wave a magic wand and have everybody have good, good enough financial literacy to make informed decisions regarding this practice, all practices really. But this one in particular,'cause I think this one hurts a lot more people than,'cause they, they get the, they get, they get the swings of the market as well. Like it's just, yeah, it's just,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 44:33

Yeah, they're paying for, well, lot of cases it sounds like not much

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 44:39

yeah. But it's just like every down is bigger. Like I'm looking at 2016 for this, this, and like the regular fund was down 1.99%. This fund, because of the fees, guess what? It was down minus 3.03% and then every up, you know, like in great years, 2020 was a great year. The normal version was up 20%. The other version was up 18.9%. And it's just like that difference that every down's bigger, every up, smaller. It adds up and it makes a difference. And it's just you. You can't make it back.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 45:14

It just compounds.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 45:15

compounds are just, yeah, just anyway. It is what it is. Can't change everything. It's just

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 45:24

What

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 45:24

ran over.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 45:25

this has

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 45:25

I know,

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 45:27

We can't end it

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 45:28

I know. Yeah. Wish I should leave it on a positive note. The positive note is this, if you feel, no, not if you feel I. If you are currently working with a company that, well, let's do it the other way. If you are currently working with a company that isn't an investment company or a bank, you should take a click. You, you should get a second opinion from. I'm obviously gonna say you'll get a second opinion from like a credit union wealth management team or something like that.'cause. That's, you know, come to me for a second opinion. I'm obviously gonna say that, but go to a company that is investment first to get a second opinion. So like if you're working with Quadris, if you're working with Fairfax, WFG, LA Capital, like any of the Sun Life even, honestly, I have seen pretty good things from Sun Life and Manulife. I think they've done a really good job of differentiating the wealth management piece. So I would still say you should go get a second opinion, but I would be less, I think percentage wise, I think more people are in. Good quality, lower cost portfolios with those companies than, than these other ones that I listed. But if you are with any of them, any insurance company, you'll get a second opinion from an investment first place like a bank or a credit union, like a wealth management team, or a credit union. Or Edward Jones. Or Raymond James some, somewhere that is Wealth Management Fest. Just, just see. Just go get a sec. Just see.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 47:03

Like would the person, should the person. Be a certified financial planner.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 47:07

Absolutely. I think that goes without saying, probably shouldn't, probably doesn't go without saying. The person you deal with should absolutely have earned their CFP. Now, it's been said. Now it's been said, and that should be the minimum standard that you should be willing to take advice from in, in my opinion. But again, I hold, I hold. Myself and others to a much higher standard than the industry does. It's just this is your money. This is your life. This is the money that you're gonna pass to your kids and your grandkids, or like you fund your retirement or like, these are, these are not small decisions that have no impact to you. These are big, big decisions that do, so it's much better to at least take the time to trust the right person, right, that has the right tools.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 47:55

just know the information. Get someone to help you run the numbers. Let's see what the actual numbers are, what the dollar figures are, and then when you can make a decision from there.

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 48:06

And, and get, and get a few people's opinion like,'cause I, there's a lot of people out there that like, even I've offered second opinions on investment statements and I've said to them, while it's not the way that I would do it. This is fine. Like it's Yes, my do I think my way is better? Yes. Otherwise I wouldn't do it this way. Right. But like there are levels of badness for a portfolio, I guess, and high cost seg funds without the benefits that when you don't, when you're not really gonna achieve them is pretty low on the list of. Goodness for our portfolio, right? So it's like even if you go to the investment advisor and or the financial planning and you say, Hey, I'm not looking to move my investments, I just want a second opinion. I'm willing to pay for your time to get a second opinion. And you do that once every five years. I think that's a really good decision for a lot of people.'cause at least, you know, at least you know in that way. But

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 49:06

That's worth the cost,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 49:08

yeah, absolutely.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 49:09

and cost analysis. Is that what you'd call it? I don't know. It's

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 49:14

Something like that, that I would, I would agree with you. I think that's worth it for sure. Okay. Anyway, I think that was a, I think I ended that on a good note. Okay, good.

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 49:23

we're gonna wrap it up'cause this

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 49:24

What's the

2025-06-18 22-05-18: 49:25

long episode,

2025-06-18 22-05-20: 49:25

Okay. Oh man, it's 50 minutes. Okay, well, uh, we will see you in the next one. Bye.